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Geezerman
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PostSubject: Lindberg Stutz   Sun 06 Dec 2015, 11:00 am

Had some gift credit to use from Amazon, so I bit the bullet and got a large Lindberg Stutz racer.
Sure not the quality as the other larger scale builds going on here, but it gives me something to work on other than bashing my head against the wall on the Wizdon Corvette build.

Not a whole lot of detail, but I'll be doing what I can (not a big fan of Lindberg stuff).
First, I'm using Tichy Train nut/bolt castings for the exposed leaf spring ends.


Last edited by Geezerman on Mon 07 Dec 2015, 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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dogfish7
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Sun 06 Dec 2015, 1:50 pm

Ahhhhhh ..... race car!
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RetiredMike
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Sun 06 Dec 2015, 2:38 pm

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Sam
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Sun 06 Dec 2015, 4:15 pm

Cool!
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Sun 06 Dec 2015, 7:13 pm

Nice. I have built that kit. I can't wait to see what you do with it.
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Geezerman
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Sun 06 Dec 2015, 8:46 pm

Lindberg didn't take a whole lot of pains designing this engine !

I found references for several different 1:1. but none matched Lindbergs  version very close..


So. I'll imagineer some details to make it look better. First I'll remove the molded valve lifters. Wound some new springs from soft aluminum wire. Looks like it's gonna be a huge improvement.
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Dave from Pleasanton
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Sun 06 Dec 2015, 9:12 pm

Looking forward to the build Clay. Lindberg's a strange animal. So many of their kits started life by some other manufacturer. The Pyro kits are simple with multi-part bodies. Some of the IMC kits are fiddly because of the number of parts. Still if you like the subject matter you can make something out of it.
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Dave from Pleasanton
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Mon 07 Dec 2015, 1:01 am

Nice improvement Clay. Stutz didn't build the engines for these cars, they bought them from Wisconsin Motors. You might find a few more pictures of the engines to help the build. Are you going to covert the spoke wheels to wire wheels? I've seen photos of it done but never tried it myself.

This guy used the Lindberg engine and made quite the great looking version. He also did quite a bit to the chassis. Hope this helps.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/85253-project-for-skip-1914-stutz-bearcat/?page=1
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Geezerman
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Mon 07 Dec 2015, 12:04 pm

I just followed that whole thread, Dave, Thanks. Like the author, I model for visual effect (as best I can) over anal historical accuracy. This was a fantastic job, and I picked up some great tips. I'll be sticking with the race car version, though.
Thanks again.
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Dave from Pleasanton
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Mon 07 Dec 2015, 5:32 pm

Yeah I'm with you on the race car version. I haven't measured but the race car is supposed to be shorter than the street car. I found the engine and rear axle stuff of great help.

I have collected some photos of Stutz race cars of the era so let me know if you want some photos.
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Speed Racer 65
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Mon 07 Dec 2015, 8:54 pm

The engine already looks better Clay.
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Wed 09 Dec 2015, 6:08 pm

Removed the molded pipes on the sides of the block and replaced them with wire.


Lindberg has absolutely nothing for the front of the motor. I'll have my work cut out for me if I want the hood open !!!   First thing was to make an inside for the radiator.
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Dave from Pleasanton
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Wed 09 Dec 2015, 6:23 pm

Clay I'll send you some pics when I get home today that should help.
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Wed 09 Dec 2015, 11:21 pm

Thanks, Dave, but I've decided to wing it, basing stuff that was done on the linked build. I won't in any way be able to get the other two kits that were used. I have lopped off the blob on the front of the Lindberg block and will be scratching stuff similar to  the engine front that was pirated from his Fuman Mercer engine.


I may remove the side tube (s) that I  replaced on the sides of the block. Looks like there is a water pump of some sort on the left side. I'll be imagineering merrily along.


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Dave from Pleasanton
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Thu 10 Dec 2015, 1:22 am

Clay here is the instructions for the Fuman Mercer kit that was used in the build I gave you a reference to.  Let me know if you want any pictures of the actual parts next to a ruler so you can get a size reference.  Picture 4 parts F2, F3, & F5 is the distributor. Picture 5 part F4 is the water pump shaft.  In the middle there should be a circular assembly with a pipe going up into the cylinder heads.  At the back of the shaft should be be a rectangular assembly (shaped kind of like the distributor) which is the generator.






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Dave from Pleasanton
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Thu 10 Dec 2015, 6:45 am

Clay, here are some drawings and photos of engines.  Although they are 1916 models they are still the same engine.  The big change is that there are covers over the valve springs.  You can see how the water pump connects to the cylinders.  I have no idea how the lower radiator hose connects to the water pump.  You can also see the generator on the end of the water pump shaft.  The actual engines only have a single spark plug per cylinder, but the racers have 2.






Here is a drawing of the stock 1912 chassis.  The center rods that go to the rear axle are the shift rods for the transmission.  Pretty cool that they had a transaxle in 1912.  The rods that go to the outside end of the axle are the brake rods.  I think one set is for the hand brake and one for the foot brake.



Here's some photos of 1914 Stutz race cars.  Few pictures show the exhaust side of the car so it is a bit of a guess, but I haven't ever seen an exposed exhaust like on this kit.  You can also see the fuel tank is much larger and there isn't any trunk.  The cowl seems to come back more and the body certainly wraps around the driver and riding mechanic.  Lindberg certainly got this part wrong.  If you look at where the front connection of the rear spring locates it seems further forward than on the Lindberg kit.  I seem to remember reading someplace that Stutz shortened the chassis on the race cars, but other wise were stock.

1914 Indy Winners Stutz (didn't actually win)





Supposedly the 1914 Indy car but the fuel tank is wrong so it isn't.  Nice view of the left side though.



Other Stutz racers from around 1914




Three Stutz cars at the 1915 Pan Pacific Exposition in San Francisco.  The 5 car is certainly later than the Lindberg version, likely from 1915.

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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Thu 10 Dec 2015, 12:32 pm

WOW !!! Thanks, Dave ! This does clarify some things. I have no intentions of getting a historically correct model, but aiming for something a lot better visually than what Lindberg supplies.
I will be imagineering quite liberally with this info though.
Most interesting is that there are no plug wires on the right side of the heads in the color photos, just some valve type thingies. I like that and may do something similar.
Thanks again. Most interesting.
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Dave from Pleasanton
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Thu 10 Dec 2015, 3:59 pm

Those are priming cups. You put some gas in each one, open the valve to let it into the cylinder, close the valve and then crank the engine. All of the other engines I have found photos for have two spark plug per cylinder. The drawings also show 2 spark plugs and the drawings are from a 1916 Stutz article. The brass circle that the spark plugs and priming cups mount to are how you get access to the valves. The engine has a one piece cylinder and cylinder head which bolts to the crankcase. Interesting way to allow a higher compression ratio.

As to trying to make a replica, I'm with you on that. I think that the Lindberg is a good starting place to make a more interesting build. For example, I used some thin plastic to box the frame since the Lindberg frame looks nothing like an actual frame. Boxing certainly isn't correct but it looks a lot better to my eye.
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Thu 10 Dec 2015, 6:05 pm

Wow that is some good tech, Dave.
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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Fri 11 Dec 2015, 3:43 pm

I have made the front plate, inserts for the heads, and have a water pump ready to go. I'll have to make the Remy style generator for the back end of the water pump shaft. I'm going to shift gears and get the frame set  before going further. Was thinking of getting cute and making pose-able steering, but the Lindberg axle wasn't as friendly to this operation as one of the other kits was.

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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Fri 11 Dec 2015, 6:20 pm

Great detail pics, Dave.

Some very good looking Imagineering, Clay.

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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Fri 11 Dec 2015, 6:23 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Fri 11 Dec 2015, 10:27 pm

"Was thinking of getting cute and making pose-able steering, but the Lindberg axle wasn't as friendly to this operation as one of the other kits was."

OK, so I'm cute !!!


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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Sat 12 Dec 2015, 3:26 am

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PostSubject: Re: Lindberg Stutz   Sat 12 Dec 2015, 2:29 pm

Good one!
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