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webby
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PostSubject: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Sat 12 Jul 2014, 11:28 pm

Been busy for the last week on a disc brake conversion, suspension upgrades on the Buick, so no modelling.

Bad news was that when I jacked the engine up, I cracked the sump. Much swearing from the garage!!

Pull the sump off to discover that at some point in the past, water had been sitting in the sump long enough to rust it almost through!
Pressure from the timber on the jack opened a 3/4" crack. Sometimes I wish 1:1 cars could be fixed with glue.

I've been working on cars for 30 odd years now & it's the first time I've seen a sump rust through.

And is it low! New springs have dropped it nearly 2 inches at the front. Not sure if I can live with that, but I hate replacing front springs.
Rears are a 10 minute job. Perhaps I should just lower the back to suit................

End of rant. Might model a bit today- the muse is not upon me ATM. But it will return
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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Sat 12 Jul 2014, 11:52 pm

2" lower and the spring's haven't settled down yet, don't sound right with it being that low   

I've seen an oil pan ( sump ) rust through but not from the inside out, that would take a long time for that to happen and you would see gray streaks in the oil from the water   

Hope every thing works out all right for ya Webby   
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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Sun 13 Jul 2014, 7:35 am

Car hasn't been on the road with the new springs yet. Still waiting on the local mobile guy to come &
reflare some brake lines. "Bolt in kit" my xxxx!

Once that & the sump is done, then I'll be back on the road.
I suspect that:

1) the engine sat with water at the bottom of the sump. Car was a storage unit seizure.
2) Or the sump at some point sat outside long enough to collect water & rust.

Day off on Monday, so hopefully the sump/oil pan gasket will arrive. And the brake guy will turn up.

Back on the road with a 1970s brakes not 1950s by next weekend is the aim.
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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Sun 13 Jul 2014, 9:05 am

The sump is an odd one Chris.

Rust primarily occurs from bare metal becoming wet, then air dried, wet, then air dried ad nauseum. Metal permanently submerged in water gets very little oxygen exposure so takes an awful lot longer to rust out.

It sounds like you may be right, the sump has been exposed to the elements for some time before being installed on the engine again.

Are the springs stock? or lowered? Got a photo of the car with the new springs fitted?

I'm surprised you're getting someone to flare the brake pipes, it's an easy peasy job with a cheap as chips kit like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10PC-Double-Pipe-Flaring-Tool-Kit-Mechanic-Brake-Dies-Copper-Pipe-Tube-/110849736247?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item19cf28be37

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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Sun 13 Jul 2014, 10:46 am

Sump problem is a bad break, but getting the front end lowered as an unexpected side effect would be a bonus in my book.. :o)

  
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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Sun 13 Jul 2014, 11:57 am

Pin holes from the inside and could well be a 'left out, gets wet, gets dry, gets wet" scenario. A blessing in disguise perhaps. One well placed rock flicking up and stranding me on the roadside was a potential. At least it happened in the garage.

Clay, the sump issue is indirectly related to the suspension. I put offset upper arm shafts in to improve the handling. Because they fouled the exhaust manifolds on install, I had to release the engine mounts & jack up the engine.  

Springs are a set of Holden ones I took a chance on & bought. I love GM interchangability

Thats when the agro started. I did think about flaring my own lines, but I'd rather leave that to the pros.

Here's photoshoped pic of the lowered look. Haven't had it out of the garage to get a decent view. I don't mind the look, its the 4" clearance under the crossmember that worries me!

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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Sun 13 Jul 2014, 12:33 pm

I love the look of those smaller "baby" Buicks. Swoopy chrome side strip is a custom look and smaller size of the car makes it more a car and less a land yacht. Beautiful look, I dunno if lowering it is worth all the extra headaches! Good luck!
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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Sun 13 Jul 2014, 1:24 pm

That looks perfect to me Chris. Leave it as is would be my advice!

4" clearance!!! My kit car has just 2". LOL

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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Sun 13 Jul 2014, 1:47 pm

Chris, the ride height looks perfect in the photo. Doesn't really look lowered. If you're going with steel or stainless lines you're better off having someone do it. Copper lines work OK with the tools, but I don't think the Buick used them.
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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Sun 13 Jul 2014, 6:18 pm

My 2002 Pontiac Grand Prix only has around 3.25" (if that even) of ground clearance from the lower engine cradle to the ground. Partially my fault partially GM's. Never leave a car guy with options that are interchangeable between models. Mine is a SE Special Edition model, but I have GTP control arms and Eibach Sport Springs under it.

Your Buick on hand I've seen oil pans (sumps) crack before, but only if they are left outside exposed to the elements. Then some jerk wad then sprayed it with rust killer (doesn't work when the damage has already been done). This is exactly what happened to me on a 1970 Chevrolet Impala Coupe' that I had to replace the engine in. Your ground clearance doesn't look bad, I wouldn't lower the rear much if any at all. Can't wait to see pics of it once things have settled in.
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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Sun 13 Jul 2014, 10:20 pm

I agree with these guys. I think the stance looks good. My 84 Corvette is 3 3/4" at the oil pan.
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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Mon 14 Jul 2014, 1:57 am

I like it a LOT Chris ! I saw a sweet GS at our local car show this weekend, and at some point we have one coming through our shop for a complete resto.
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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Mon 14 Jul 2014, 7:32 pm

My '63 Beetle had a 2" clearance at the front and bottomed out on every journey,
and if I came across an unexpected road hump 'traffic calmer'
it meant a 13 point 'u' turn to go back the way I came !

Looks the business on the Buick !

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PostSubject: Re: All Quiet on the modelling front.   Mon 14 Jul 2014, 11:29 pm

You did sink low Ron! I ran it out of the garage yesterday- on the park brake. It's got a definate rake to it, about an inch down at the front.

I'm toying with spring spacers at the front. Easy install ( I think) and will get the car level again.
Brake bloke comming this arvo to do the flares.

Hopefully on the road tomorrow.   
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